Forums » General » rule clarifications from the pros please.....
Messages for rule clarifications from the pros please.....
Posted by militiamember
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Jul 22, 2008 10:38 AM |
I apologize for my ignorance but i have a few things that i need cleared up
what is the rule for obstruction if the rusher is lining up more than 5 yrds of the center? If the rusher is 5 yds to the left of the center and the QB rolls right, is it required for the center to actually have to move out of the way because he is now interfering with a direct path to the qb? I guess my problem with this is, if he's so far off to the side that the center that he doesn't know who's rushing how can he have a fair chance of getting out of the way without actually having to go backward?
Secondly...
I was wondering if any of the refs in this league have ever seen a flag thrown for flopping? There have been a few times this year where in my mind the quarterbacks have turned a regular sack into a grand dramatic performance. I'm all in favor for making sure the qb is safe, but to look like Vladi Divac out there and consistanly get flags for roughing the passer makes us look like a bunch of soccer players out there.
In addition....
once this year we were penalized when our rusher tagged the arm of the qb after he had decided to tuck the ball and turn his arm into the tag. Is the rule that the QB can never be tagged on his throwing arm ever? Or that the qb can not be tagged on the arm before, during or after the ball has left his hand while throwing the ball. At what time does the Qb become a runner... is it after he crosses the line? were we just out savvied by a wiley old vet when he turned his arm into the tag? (please realize there was no excessive force with this tag as we were being quite ginger with our elder out there)
Lastly.......
I realize the refs have it tough in any sport, especially when you have 14 grown men playing in a rec league. but does a team bench get penalized for comments made by spectators if the ref deems the comment to be inappropriate? We had a flag thrown on a 90 year old grandma taunting the game calling of an official. As I realize that there is NO PLACE for this in sport, I do find it ammusing that a flag can be thrown on our team for the oldest person in the stands saying "nice job mister referee"
let the topic begin.....
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Posted by andy21
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Jul 22, 2008 11:20 AM |
While I'm sure a ref or one of the exec. can clear this up I'm fairly certain that the rusher is only allowed to line up no more than one yard (left or right) of the center. If the rusher were to line up say 5 yards to one side he could virtually force the QB to roll to one side of the field for the entire game. I don't know the rule exactly if a team choses to rush 2 or more players.
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Posted by andy21
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Jul 22, 2008 11:24 AM |
According to the rule book the rusher must line up a minimum of one yard to either side of the centers' feet. The rusher can not line up more than 5 yards to either side of the centers feet. A clarification on the double rusher rule would be appreciated.
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Posted by JaMarcus
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Jul 22, 2008 11:31 AM |
From the touch football canada case book (a WTFL specific one will be published shortly):
First question:
The rusher must be allowed a clear and direct path to the quarterback. Members of the opposing team are not allowed to block or interfere with the rusher. To maintain this clear and direct path, the rusher must line up one yard outside the feet of the opposing centre and not directly in front of that player. Also the rusher must line up within five yards of either side of the center’s feet. Lining up outside of this area causes a loss in rusher privileges. These rules apply if more than one rusher is used. Blocking or interfering with the rusher results in a ten yard obstruction penalty against the offense.
2nd question:
Objectionable conduct - These penalties are applied as 10 yard dead ball fouls. The following actions are considered to be objectionable conduct fouls: the use of profane language, taunting opposing players, demeaning remarks made to opposing players, persistent arguments to officials, deliberately delaying the game, faking an injury or contact to draw a penalty or delay the game, or any action which brings disrepute to the game.
3rd question:
The defender/rusher will be called for a Personal Foul if they make ANY kind of contact with the Quarterback’s throwing arm or hand or above the Quarterback’s shoulders while the Quarterback is attempting to make a pass, this includes the Quarterback’s natural follow-through motion.
A related situation:
Scenario: The Quarterback ducks to avoid a touch, but ducks into the path of the rusher, who trips over the QB.
Interpretation: No roughing the passer or any roughing penalty is called unless one of the players is out of control. Players are discouraged from ducking a touch but it is not illegal to do so. The play should continue until a deliberate touch is made.
Comment: Ducking should be distinguished from putting the head down while running forward. The latter is a 15-yard personal foul against the player that puts their head down.
Grandma question:
I'd have to have heard it. Grandma sounds like a fun gal though.
Hope that helps
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Posted by spider
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Jul 22, 2008 11:35 AM |
1.) Complicated question Short answer "Coles notes version" version. The rusher only has rights if he aligns outside the centers foot, and has an area 5 yards from the bean bag to have rights. There are more rules associated with the rusher. For an indepth explanation of this complicated rule, rule books are available from the league at a cost of $15.00. Additionally, the Ontario Touch Football Association has their book on line, and it may be viewed by going to www.tfont.ca. It's basically the same as ours, only we also follow the Football Canada rulebook, as well. For the purposes of the rusher the ules is the same.Two of our exec and former and futureexec arecurrentlydeveloping a rule book for the WTFL, which will combine both "Asociations" rules into one book, (ours) This may be available at the end of this year, and or certainly next year.
On a rolling snap, obviously the rusher knows the QB is rolling. Get out of the rusher's way. Simple. (Again rights and exceptions are stated in the Rusher rules section of the rule book)
2.) Flopping in any sport if deemed to be that, would likly get an objectionable conduct penalty.
2B.) Protecting the QB's throwing arm and in the act of throwing is what the rule is designed for. That penalty application could be applied as a live or dead ball at the discretion of the offended team.
2B.i If the QB is a runner, he is a runner, roughtags would be applied as a deadball foul
2Bii. However, any player anywhere, on a kick-off return, on a lateral play down field or the passer, should a rough tag be called on the victim, this is also considered to be "roughing the passer" and live ball applications can be applied from one of three points at the option of the non-offending team. It can also be applied as a deadball foul.
Lastly, Anyone in your team bench area (the 25 - 45 yard line), who is exhibiting dis respectful, distasteful conduct or behaviour, is eligible for penalty. If they are obnoxious, get them off the bench area, and into the stands, or the other side of the field.
If they want to be by their precious little grandchildren,in the bench area, they have to abide by the rules we ask of all our people.
Does that answer your question?
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Posted by JaMarcus
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Jul 22, 2008 11:45 AM |
Andy21, the rusher or rushers do NOT have to line up within 5 yards to rush. They DO have to line up within 5 yards if they want to have any sort of straight line "rights" to the quarterback. And of course the first rusher to cross the line of scrimmage must do so from behind the rusher bag.
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Posted by spider
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Jul 22, 2008 11:58 AM |
Rushers do not have any rights outside of 5 yards from the bean bag Mr. Jarule! You quoted it in your copied answer! Geez MJ use your own words! What $15.00?
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Posted by spider
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Jul 22, 2008 01:42 PM |
Yo Dude we we'll see ya demonstrate that tomorrow when the Wood Eyes take on the mighty Ninja Militia!
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Posted by militiamember
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Jul 22, 2008 02:08 PM |
thanks for the quick replies guys.....
it totally clears up the rusher issue, however the arm tag rule is still kinda blurry for me. if the QB tucks the ball, he is not in anyway in a throwing motion, and moves his arm in the path of a tag, would that still be a defensive penalty?
Point made about the granny thing. I'll tell our team mate to tell her to sit on the other side of the field when making assessments on officiating.
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Posted by dubblezeero
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Jul 22, 2008 02:37 PM |
wow, you guys are pretty good. the only thing at first glance that I can see is if the rusher loses her rights by not lining up outside the centers feet and within 5 yards of the bean bag; all rights are reinstated after she crosses the line of scrimage. Basically the rusher can line up wherever she wants, but she will only have rights to a direct path if she lines up within the guidelines...again, these rights will be reinstated once she crosses the LOS.
that's it for me
#00
oh yeah and the rusher must line up with his whole body outside the centers body (foot)as Darrell said, not 1 yd outside the centers feet as JaMarcus said.
later touch afficianados.....
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