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40 Posts

I would like to suggest a rule change regarding players from upper divisions playing with lower division teams. I would like to suggest that players may not move down more than 2 divisions. So, a player from the 2nd division could not play for a team lower than in the 4th. Conceivably, a player from the 1st division could outplay the whole of a 5th division team's defense. Seems to me limiting which divisions a person plays on will help make things a little more fair.

12 Posts

What happens when it's the other way around??? I play in the women's division and the Blazers let me play in Div 2 with them. It's nice to learn from the upper div players...

Or what about people who play receiver in a higher div but then QB a lower div team b/c their buddies aren't upper div players?

I see your point b/c I think you're talking about upper div QB's who drop to div 5 or something and pick apart your defences...anyways, are the games on if it's storming outside??? That was my original reason for coming onto the site.

44 Posts

Is there a specific example you have of this happening? I think the multiple player rule might need some work, but I haven't seen any one high division player dominating any team this year at leat in div 5.

And Sonya has a good point that I have thought about this year. I brought a couple players on to Nerf to help us out, but the rule then prevents any other player on Nerf from even playing 1 game in 4th or 3rd division, even if a team just needs an extra player for a game, or just to learn by playing in a higher div. I know having Scott, Marco and Mike play with us this year has helped a lot of players on Nerf learn new things and play better.

How the rule can be reworked that it doesn't become an administrative nightmare I'm not as sure on.

And Sonya if there is lightning near the field the game will be canceled. If you haven't heard here or on CJOB or view a league rep show up at the field. I'm somewhat near Optimist and hear thunder now so its not looking likely but sometimes storms clear off pretty fast.

40 Posts

My only tangible example might seem to some that I have bad feelings or something toward the rest of the Giants. I don't. I like those guys a lot. They play clean and are really good guys to play against. I just noticed that one of their players (Suk Singh, as I recall) got all of their TDs and the majority of their defensive plays. I checked it out and he's got 120 points in the 1st division with Sunparties.

I guess my point is that having someone who has 120 points in the 1st division playing against a 5th division team seems to be a mismatch of ability. There is a lot to say for guys who are able to learn from a higher division, but it's when the disparity is so great (and I think we can all agree that 1st to 5th is a HUGE difference in skill), it seems to me that's a little much.

My desire is to just... level the playing field a little? I don't know how it could be administered easily and I don't want to come off as some whiny 5th division player who got schooled by one receiver who was on fire.

4 Posts

I talked to the giants after the game and only reason he was playing was because
they needed a 7th guy. They are not trying to stack the team. With him there it was still a pretty close game, we had our chances to win. I agree the rule needs to be looked at, but if a team needs a player to field a team of 7, I can handle that. For some teams it is a struggle to put 7 guys on the field this time of year.

140 Posts

Being a guy who brought this rule up 4 years ago at the AGM (with Cliff K trying to block it, what a dyck! man what that funny way back then :) I have to say that it might be in the top 5 successful things the WTFL has done recently (last 5 years) besides the NT division and all star games but anyway it was all about the help to grow the league, this rule has never been used to hurt the league or teams involved as some might of stated, just make it grow. It has been used particularly for coaching and to speed up the process of influence that a few higher division players might have to teach inexperienced ones (see Nerf) of what the learned from playing with more experience players (remember some of the best players are not the most talented but the most experienced)

In your particular example, Suk is a rare case, The guy has crazy speed, great hands and some one who can take it to the house at any give time (but you still have to get it to him too right??) so basically he can't do it on his own, div 5 means you have to step up with a game plan too and it's not all about one player...

regarding dropping a upper division QB to a lower division, it doesn't mean squat unless he can run for 20 yards a pop (beat a rusher every time) or he can teach receivers to run proper routes and "catch a much harder thrown ball", personally I threw for over 170 TD's in Div 3 the past 3 years but 8 half games in NT (playing part time QB) we hardly move the ball, basically the great guys I play with are still learning how to cut at 10, how to catch and how not to be concerned with a ball smoking them in the hands. even the top top QB's will have hard time with new b players unless they are like superstar Jeff Kull and can run for 80 yards a pop....

The best example I can give you veterans teaching new players of this rule is not even in the mens division, the women have men's coaches and some of them have helped them understand the game better, so much that from last year to this year their performance is night to day, huddles are quicker, game plans are more advance and ultimately the "Game" is much better overall for both genders in the lower division thanks to the access of higher division players.

My advice is get intouch with higher division players who might want to coach you so u and your team can learn this great game at a higher level.

Marty B
OC QB #18
Referee
"guy who got the ball rollin on the upper division rule"

1155 Posts

Marty,

Your comments and philosophy about the upper div players playing, on lower teams is bang on! Teams and players have the potential to abuse this rule. In the 4 years that we have had it.....the members have policed it fairly well.

Only one time did I hear of last year's exec, or was it this year?? not allowing a player to move down. That is another bonus to the way the rule is written.

Your final comment is also one that the teams should key on. Forbidding higher players to go down, would be a poor choice. We should all aspire to get a little better each game, or perhaps each day.

Teams that play in a lower div, I assume realize their talent pool is limited. Therefore by playing in a lower div, they have a reasonable chance of winning some games. However, by playing in what equates to as a 5,6, or 7th division, one has to observe that the point of playing is fun and recreation, and not to challenge for the National Championship.

Earlier on in this forum topic, I believe the post was made that suggested it wasn't "fair" to allow upper players of a certain designation, to play down. My point would be, what does it matter?

In reflecting on these posts, that realization jumps out at me!

While some of us play to win, and it does seem to matter, if that is the case, then what is happening in the Upper Divs is cool! Teams ARE loadingup, and trying to get as good as possible. That makes the "W" the place to play.

For the "rec" divisions, it seems a little odd to complain about a real good player, playing. As you noted, use the experience to learn from it, and "grow!"

This "rule/policy" is a plus for the league,and had resulted in tremendous growth of teams and quality of play. As the past president who implemented the New Team division, and past All-Star game organizer, I also thank you for your props on those two topics.

Speaking of all-star games, where are all those new Team All-Stars?? Could be your only chance to play at the stadium this year? Marcus, how's that going?

679 Posts

AllStars are being emailed in, but we need more. Teams get your guys signed up!

Checkout the allstar page via the menu on the left hand side for more info.

40 Posts

Garry, I didn't know that about Suk. Good call on that. Like I said, I like playing the Giants - they're a good group of guys and I'll play against them quiet happily and know that, whatever happens, there will be good sportsmanship and good play. I didn't think they were stacking their team.

I don't have a problem with players from higher division coming down, just in moving more than, say, 2 divisions, is all. Of course I want the W, I just don't think I'd want it with 3 out of 7 of my 5th div team playing in the 1st.

I don't expect a rule change, I just thought I'd see if there was any conversation to be generated. A little tweak here and there sometimes helps keep good things fresh. And no, that was not a double entendre...

1155 Posts

This is a great "rule" to debate. Shows the value of the forum.

I would ask the question, "Doesn't the 3 upper div guys on a team prevent stacking?" I would think so. It also means the lower team can't just keep bringing guys down, and displacing the lower div guys. I would think it works.

Always good to kick around ideas though!!