WTFL Wpg. Touch Football League - WTFL

1155 Posts

Hey although they are squabbling over "running up the score" and annihilating the lower div team, it does raise the question.....

Should we have "interlocking games?"

(We have interlocking games because there are not enough teams electing to play in Div 1, 2 and 3) Therefore, we end up with a bogus 2 team Div 1. I have heard that the Elite teams would rather just play elite. (better competition) However 6 times is just a little too much!

I see, from 2 of the comments, inter-divisional play certainly in this situation, raises some concerns. I say some, because, generlly speaking everyone makes the playoffs, and teams can control their own destiny. It's not that big a deal. Everyone makes the playoffs!

I personally think interdivisional play is a chance to play with ther better teams but yet still earn points in your own division. However a score of 69 -0 shoots all theories of sportsmanship, common sense and this form of schedulling all to hell. I mean anyone out there enjoying getting beat by 69 points? raise your hand...

I am just looking for sugestions on that topic for next year.... and please don't say move teams up half way through the year. If you have a 20 team league, maybe that's an option, but not with the number we have. Secondly, it ruins peoples plans, third doing a new schedule in the middle of the season, is not something I would want to do, therefore I would never ask anyone else to do it.

So, do you enjoy inter-divisional play? or should we see if we can keep those Elite Div bums playing with themselves :)?

Any ideas?

96 Posts

Considering Division 1 is basically a recycled version of Elite, it's kind of pointless in my opinion. I think it would be great to cross-over if the league did it without the multi-team rule, but seeing as that won't go away, it's just going to make for some lopsided games and/or awkward situations when guys have to pick which team they are playing for.

Don't get me wrong, there have been some good games over the years. The Aztecs beat the Assassins last year and I think the Griffins beat the Eagles this year. These games are supposed to be a measuring tool for teams to see how they would fare against higher caliber teams, but seeing as the three teams in 1st division really can't move up because of the multi-team rule, what's the point?

44 Posts

Jeff,

Some day you will have to teach me how to say so much with so few words. You are bang on in your assessment. Find a team, commit to that team, make adjustments over time, play together through thick and thin, and you can't help but get better and move up a division or three.

Could you imagine if our league sold game day programs.....might be a good idea considering rosters become alphabet soup as a result of the multi team rule!

Question:

If Tom Brady played for the New Eng Patriots and he was allowed to play for the Hamilton Tiger Cats, who would he play for if there was an interlocking schedule? Exactly, that's how dumb that rule is.

1155 Posts

Maybe we have to make a "rule" that says MTG's have to play for their lower div club, if they ever meet in a "head-to- head"game!!!??

I find the score 69-0 repugnant! and it does question the credibility of all involved.

In a positive example, I have always been of the opinion, that a team like the Ain'ts or Trojans for example, could pick up three Elite guys. Both those teams are pretty good, already. Obviously, a Div 3 or 4 guy that,is good in that div, wouldn't necessarily be good in Elite. Therefore they would have to maybe pick up some Upper Div guys to compete.

I really think the membership have to consider what they are doing. I mean the Assassins and Eagles have 50 year olds playing. How much longer will they be alive never mind play??? I know the average touch football player is healthier than the 50 year old Swede. (Hey Gus is that true?)

So what about the next generation, the up and commers. You and I know very well we started off in "the primieval swamp," when we started playing this game. Eventually, you have to move up and challenge yourself, if you have any belief that you are good.

I said at the start of the year having watched Eric Rout and the Trojans play the Oak Park Alumni, (Ho Jo Express)that those were two good teams. (both with some div 4 players, BUT also some ELITE players) I'd love to see those guys play in Regina and TOC. Tremendous growth would occur.

Of course, that costs money and young guys aren't exactly rich. So the next step is play in Winnipeg. But not Div 4(or whatever)

The multi-team player rule I believe is good for that development reason. Maybe we have to add an addendum to it to reflect the "put up or shutup" philosophy I am espousing. Maybe a team can only use the same two multi-team guys in the same division for two years. Then they either have to move up a division or geta new set of MTGs (sort of like the Northern League in Goldeyes baseball!)

While blow-outs will occur occasionally, that type of score with those two Jr and Sr clubs, does raise a red flag. Don't you agree?

How about 2 year rule?

43 Posts

Jeff makes a great point. None of the 3 teams in Div1 can even think about moving up (multiple team rule included or excluded because basically all the Elite players playing in Div 1 would chose their Elite team)

I’m not sure how anyone can get excited about playing in a 3 team division that isn’t Elite. Have more teams in Div1 (unlikely), if not then combine Div1 and Div2. Then have Elite play each other only and if they think 6 games vs each other is too much how about lowering their sched to, say, 15 games (which is what they play now within their division)? And, if they prefer, charge them the same registration as 18 games but give them 4 officials.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the Multi-team player rule, how many players over the years have joined a lower division team for development reasons? Next to none I bet. It's to play more football and/or to play with buddies.

1155 Posts

Those are very good points.

Well, I still hold out on the "helping out the less fortunate" ideal. I think the MTG situation is being compromised because of the Ref rule. No one wants to ref, so they go play in the U.

However, I bet you're right on with the point,not many are goin down, to help. Playing with your buddies is cool though. But we only have 36 MTG guys this year compared to over 100 last year.

Great idea about Elite playing only 15 games. Give them room for a tournament. Maybe count Regina's games as part of the standings? All 4 Elite teams may go. (SweetPea is workin the SP Bus.)

Maybe have a Winnipeg tournament where the 3 guaranteed games count in the standings? maybe teams could have an open roster for that tournament. That would allow experimentation?

More ideas please. !!

25 Posts

first off you cant force players to choose between which team they want to play for, but in saying that that choice should never be made. why do the div 2 teams not play in div 1? cause for the most part the div 1 teams are a mixing of elite team players and top div 2 players. so what is the whole point of those div 1 teams. what do they play for? the final is essentially decided before the season starts. i dont know any league/divison like that. combine div 1 and div 2. make players that play in those two divs choose one team, cause for the most part they are playing in div 2 just cause they can and the div 2 teams want to make their teams better. rather than adding players from div one why dont teh div 2 teams look in the lower divs for talent. next, let the elite teams play the other elite teams only (it is for teh most part the only competition they got). the suggestion of reducing the schedule makes sense and as a replacement y not have a provincial championship (most other sports in manitoba have one). the season is so long and pointless in elite. what if 4th place in elite missed playoffs? it would add meaning to the season and not just make it into a glorified pre-season. same with all the other divs. playoffs are a privileged not something you automatically qualify for when you pay your registration. maybe in the rec league you can do that but in any of the other divs you have to make the season mean something. and 1st place getting a bye means nothing.

PS i love answering my own questions.

#9

1155 Posts

Very interesting (I think.)

Punctuation and some sentence structure would be appreciated.(Sorry but it's a little tough to get some of your points)

Yes we could force players to choose play on their lower div team in a head to head. (I think that was part of your point...not sure) The league forced you to ref, didn't they??

I agree forcing people to "mandatory policies" does suck. (I think the exec is regretful we had to do that, but we had to get some more refs....and boy have we found a ton of first year superstars!!).....That's why we don't force teams to play in a specific division. That's also why we have a problem in Div 1 and Div 2 and Elite. Because we don't force teams into a divison. We should, but we don't. You're now saying more restrictive policies in???? Yeesshhh!!! Point taken though.... great conversation piece.

That would be a tough call. Sure would make life easier on the sheduler!

In Indoor it's more possible. It was tried somewhat due to competitive balance. But still for the rec divs it's open house. None the less, it's still a great point to consider. Your boss won't be very happy though! Personally, I can dig it!!

How about it world? Limited divisions of 8. We strived for that this year.... sort of.

The upper teams (Elite) do look in lower divisions for talent. Check the Assassin and Avenger rosters. They have a lot of guys from lower divs. So that point is not necessarily true. Maybe you could explain more?

You raise a cool idea about limiting play-off teams. I also raised that this year, but had my lips sealed with contact cement for two hours. I like that point. A 1- 17 team or a 3 - 15 team...does it deserve a play-off game? The team is probably relieved the season is over!!!

Buy hey "we are CANADIAN. It's not how we do, it's just that we do do."
- Make a great bumper sticker for the Canadian team at the Olympics eh?

Provincial Championships- Yeah baby!!!!We did have a Provincial Championship many years ago. However, as a former Elite player, why would I want one? I have my 1 vs 4, 2 vs 3 playoff and that works for me. Straighten me out on that one if you please!! :)

Do you think any other divisions would want to play a Povincial Championship tournament?
You'd have to pay to get in. In many cases it would be held at the end of the season.
Although it could be held at anytime really. Great idea. Who's in for that one?

One other exec member and myself, tried to put the idea forward(tournament)- it was not met with enthusiasm, only some mild lip service.

Quite frankly, He and I believe a reduced schedule of 3 less games (therefore you'd get 15 league games) and a tournament opportunity, or two, would actually allow those who wanted to play more games a chance (against very good competition - not 69- 0 type), while those that did not want to play a tournament would still get 15 games. He and I think that is the way of the future.(or the past 20 years in Ontario, as that is what they do)....and Wpg probably has more teams than many areas of Canada!!!!!

We are the Touch Football Capital of Canada! (someone enter that as the sign for the airport contest)

Ultimate 85
Winnipeg 75
Indoor 103 (both seasons)
Canford? 15

That's a lotta people entering teams to play some touch football.

What's wrong with you people? get a life!
and to think we can't get it together to hold a year end party?

C'mon Don, reserve Greengates, surrounded by portable whirlpools, or C'mon Brian, what about Amici's hosting a year end windup, or Craig whatabout it? Who else wants to bring us all together? Maybe a yearend wind up? a Christmas "party" and then a SuperBowl party!
and how about Brad's Birthday party? or Glen you could throw a "Big Dyck party" or...

I digress. Great comments PP. now about those tags on the Quarterback....

These are excellent, what else?????.......

26 Posts

you figure with that many playing touch football the city would give us some good fields...how about getting together in april at city hall and getting some places to play?

1155 Posts

The Dub has good fields! They all have grass and are lined. Leperance is a cool back up.
Some sites have their quirks, but hey, that's life. It is amateur sport. We play in two sport parks. We have started negotiations with two sport parks for our own fields.

However, in hindsight (forsight) should we invest $200,000.00 for fields when we can rent for a few grand? and have use when we want ecept for a couple days?

Riddle me that!

25 Posts

i agree that the elite teams do look in lower divs to find players (im one of those guys). but y dont the div 2 teams look in the lower divs? they should be even more active looking in lower divs then the elite teams. i see they add friends from div 1. rather than do that, find players so that you can beat those div 1 teams.

provincial tourney: make it open to any team in the wtfl or in utfl (but multi players have to choose a team prior to their first game). if you play a game for one team u cant play for another team even if that first team is knocked out. start the tourney with lower div teams playin each other and then once a few are eliminated you put them in a draw with the elite teams. so that there is a chance an elite team plays an elite team. if you look at this years soccer MSA cup (provincial championship) the top two teams in the premiere league played each other in the quarter final and the winner has to play prolly the next best team in the province. keeping it random will produce interesting matchups.

PS those tags are as clear as daylight and im polish, so moj angielski nie jest taki dobry
but i guess neither is my polish.

#9

1155 Posts

Chi kie big guy,

I hear ya on those points and they are clear. dobry!

96 Posts

Darrell,

You made a point earlier about some good up & coming teams, like HoJo and Trojans. I do agree that there is some really good talent in the lower divisions. The problem I see now is these younger teams are slowly going to getting their rosters picked apart by the upper division teams, preventing them from (a.) moving up because of these players on other teams or (b.) developing skills as a team. I challenge you to take a look at all of the rosters in division 1-3 and tell me what team would be able to move up the ranks without having any conflicts with their players playing on other teams.

I really think this whole multi-team thing has really hindered the development of touch football in our city (both leagues included). People are more interested in playing on a number of teams, rather than developing more team chemistry with practices, tournaments, etc. Obviously some people don't care about what division they play in or moving up, but as I see it with the current system, it will be the same 4 teams in elite forever. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see another Sunparties or Avengers coming along any time soon.

I personally like the system used in Regina. 24 teams, 3 different sessions and re-seeding after each session. Teams are always playing in the division they deserve to be in. Obviously very hard to do with a league our size, but if you got rid of the multi team rule, I'm sure the league would be much smaller, which in my opinion would be a good thing. Why do you think that no other city in the country runs their leagues like this.....because the cons far outweigh the pros.

/rant

57 Posts

Dead on Jeff. There comes a time when the "true" problem has to be addressed instead
of putting a bunch of band aids on it. Well said.

679 Posts

Every time I go to post about this, Jeff beats me to the punch.

I fully agree about this one, and as a "lower div" team that got their QB taken from us by an unnamed elite team (and from an unnamed suspension), I can tell you the problem exists :)

We have the 2 biggest leagues in Canada in Winnipeg alone, but how many national championships do we have? How many traveling teams (or teams that actually are good enough to travel) does Winnipeg have? Not very many, and the number isn't increasing.

We have a lot of great players in this city, but we don't have that many great teams. I stopped trying to hold practices for my teams a couple of years ago, simply because it's impossible to schedule one now with everybody playing 3 times a week.

Eliminate the multiple team stuff and add in a monthly tournament like they do in Ontario. If you do it right, you can actually eliminate a lot of league problems and also give people enough football to keep them happy.

679 Posts

Also we have 4 leagues in this city now. WTFL, UTFL, Canford and the new Flag league. If that isn't enough places to play then I dunno what is wrong with you.

1155 Posts

Superficially, you may have a point. However, you totally miss the bigger picture.

More teams = more discretionary dollars = more variety = more opportunity!
Example: Better fields, lined fields, All-Star game, Stadium games, own facility.(an offer is on the table right now. Do we want it? Do you have the political will. I do. We can start building it tomorrow. Does the membership?) Note: This isn't proganda. This is fact.

Team building - Hopefully, any team with a little bit of character would want to stay together, with their nucleus, add a few players, and become a good team. Geez the Assassins/Eagles, QB's, average over 50 years old. Some day (another 10 years) they may stop playing) I would hope young QBs, who have talent, (Aaron Geisbrecht, Eric Rout,Chris Lucas,) would be waiting in the wings to step up, with ther vets and take over.
....and yes they are taking their lumps as new teams, but some of those boys can play
(Geisbrecht to Wilcox on an out pattern....they can run that with their eyes closed, and Aaron hits Ty ON THE BREAK. No one, and I mean NO ONE, does that in the WTFL!!)

Without the MTG rule Ty would not be playing with his buddies on the new Ho Jo Express team. That former HS Championship team has ooodles of potential. If they could bring a few more guys togeher....easily Elite Div. Same with Sun Parties, and Trojans.
(Trojans should be up already)

Teams like the Sun Parties are just plain good.....as are Ho Jo and Trojans. Piranhas have had a great run using multi-team guys. The Avengers, in 4 years have gone from the Ultimate rec league, - to defeating the # 1 team in Canada using MTG. I'd say that was pretty impressive. In just, 4 -5 years,....

The WTFL DOES need that to make the Elite div work. Otherwise it would be a 2 team division. Actually, we should probably let that Div bring up more guys if it equated to Ho Jo and Trojans moving up.

If the player plays on a team that meets each other. He plays on the lower div team that game. Me and the Rev agree (call this "the Revspide rule")

Multi-team guys /teams have to have the right guys (moral and chemistry wise). Guys have to show up for sure. Teams in lower divisions, proably like to play with their buddies and if they win..all the much better.

Some guys like playing with their buddies, and I find that great. However, those guys should have an opportunity to play at "their" level" Charity only goes so far.(I would assume that would be one of the reasons you made the move.)

The same 4 teams in Elite??? The Elite division has the 4 top 4 teams. That's all there is. This division changes every 4 or 5 years, with the adition of a new team here, or there. You can check my history of the WTFL book, available for $35.00 if ya like.

However, you can't expect non-elite players to play in that div.

Your lack of the Big picture, "naivete" regarding "number of teams" is evident..... More teams lessens the financial burden on the league. (read that as your cost per each team!!!) Things like Maple Grove, Buhler and lined fields cost extaordinary amounts of money. A portion of each team's fees are used to pay for that. Less teams = higher team fees.

Christ, I just had someone complain about the $2.00 entry to Buhler last night. (Like don't we realize the cost of gas to run lawnmowers has risen.) If we had less teams,.... fees would be at least $250.00 more per team. (All other leagues in Canada charge members/teams MORE on a per game basis than we do.) As it is, you complain about fields and non lines and refs, currently.

Not sure where the membership is coming from with the "real" problem??? You want Pro caliber fields, at typical Winnipeg wholesale rates. Less teams = less discretionary dollars = less lined fields and no Buhler or Maple Grove. If ya want to play all your games on unlined fields???? go ahead.

The field lining dude, has posted asking for help for this paid position, yet no one responded. At Maple Grove and Buhler, we pay lots extra (2x the city price) but we get a cut, lined field, and someone to do it on a regular consistent basis.

Less teams = you paying $150.00- 200 bucks to play each year. Who's up for that?

679 Posts

I'm just going to skim your post cuz it's too long and I got work to do.

However, one thing I see is that you think more teams == more money. I've seen the WTFL financial reports each year since 2003 I think when the league was only the half the size. The profit isn't any bigger.

More teams means you need more fields and because you NEED the fields you gotta pay for the premium ones. This results in a higher cost.

Less teams actually means more money from where I'm standing. Remove the rec div which operates at a break even for example and you actually increase profit.

The reality is that football is like a drug in this town. Increase the fees and people will still play. If the field costs have gone up, increase the rates. If people don't wanna pay, then they don't play. Less teams also equals less work for the volunteers that we have in this league.

Getting our own facility sounds great, but this is Winnipeg...I'll believe it when I see it. If you have that in the works and it pans out then FANTASTIC! If you can pull something like that off then you will be a hero in local sports for years to come.

96 Posts

My rant - about player/team development
Your rant - about money

You talk about HoJo and their QB throwing to TY, and the great connection they have. So when are they going to tournaments to show this off........oh wait. How about the Brownridge to Jackson connection? That would be great to see in Regina......oh wait. I could go on and on and on here. With the structure of the league right now, there's going to be too many obstacles for young teams to develop.

If your vision is growth and money to expand on Winnipeg's 2nd largest rec touch football league, great. But I thought that this is "Where the Pros Come to Play"? That's why I play in the WTFL.

1155 Posts

You are very negative. I am sorry.

The Dub "finances" the last few years is "break even," which is what it was when I first started in 1983. We are not in operation to make money. However, we obviously can not run a deficit budget either.

The profits are not bigger the last couple years becauae the league re-invests the money into special events for you, (All-Star Game Stadium Games for Championship weekend,and or getting you fields like Little Mountain to play on. Each year, the schedulling needs to be pursued, and determination of available sites vs. season start time has to be examinined.

If the league/exec removes those costs from the league, we would earn a minimum $ 5000.00 /year. However, that is not the purpose of the league.

The rec league fees were increased this season to reflect a growing need for self supportive costs.

The work load for the volunteers is equal to the supply and demand, and is not a concern.

The facility opportunity is just that. "I" will do nothing without the memberships involvement. I have no problem with the fields we have this season. However if the membership would so desire a "home" one has been offerered.

1155 Posts

Just a comment regarding your post Jeff, I believe I addressed the concept of scheduling in an earlier post. I also agree that 2 or 3 "available" tournaments to teams, would increase player, as well as team development. I have been there and done that for 25 + years, and I firmly believe that is the way to go. Unfortunately there are only 3 of us that believe the "Ontario" model, of less games and a few tournaments asa schedule!!!

I offerered a tournament here in Winnipeg, and received one response. In relity, I am not sure the members are intereted in the idea of team development though. Based on that lack of interest, I'd say no.

10 Posts

Darrell,

no one is calling you out, but your math is flawed

50 teams @ 1200.00 = 60k
18 games per team X 25 = 450 games
450 games X 90$ per game for refs = 37K
pay 10K for fields ( what we paid for little mountain )
Pay 5K for fun stuff (all star game,finals at the stadium)
pay 3k for lining fields,tour buses,score boards...whatever

still have 5k left

we don't need to force people to ref because we would have enough refs in the pool, even if you lose some to injury for the season :)

we would need less fields, so that cost would go down as well...

why on earth do we continue with the theory that the bigger we get the better we are? If you have don't have the infastructure to support competitive divisions why wouldn't we look at something to fix the issue instead of having the same problem year after year?

Feel free to tell me how I am wrong?

Derrick
Necessary Roughness

96 Posts

I for one would certainly welcome more tournaments, especially local ones.

I think that you would get a lot more involvement from teams if they only played on one team. Planning for tournaments as the league is now, you'd have elite, no div 1, only half of div 2 to could play, half of div 3 would be missing key players.... It's no wonder why nobody wants to play. It's a pain in the ass to organize. Plus with 4 games a week they get their fix and don't want a tournament.

I don't mean to be beating a dead horse here, but I think it's quite apparent that a lot of the league's problems all fall on this rule. I don't think you can partially fix the problem. If the whole thing is a monetary thing, raise the fees. I'm quite sure we're still one of the, if not the cheapest leagues in the country.

And please do not take my comments as a shot to the league. I think everything has been great. I'm just giving my opinion.

57 Posts

I'd love to see a survey on this site of who's in favor of the Multi Player Rule.
I am no Web Developer but I think there are pretty decent code snippets out there
that can make this happen pretty easily.

1155 Posts

Yo cupcake!

How they hangin?

I only wish your figures were correct. and actually based on last year they would be....

Ya just missed some entries, for this year.

Ref clinics
Field line painting by our guys
meeting room rentals

All that has come in around 5K my friend.

All I know is we have had to make cuts this season ( as a result of field rental, painting,meeting room rental, and ref clinics, etc.)

Some of those were a one time cost (Ref clinics, non-sponsored meeting room rental)

Come to a meeting,.... (tonite CanadInn Pembina Altos, 8:00pm)...and clue our treasurer in. I'd love for the league to have more $ so we could try more things, but....the bottom line says....nope. It's all there in black and white...reported on every meeting. As usual it is available to you, by contacting our secretary. Also a year end statement at the AGM, for those who want to attend.

Bottom line is it costs $ to get stuff done.
more teams= more dollars = more stuff getting done.

Just a note on a comment on the refs - we have enough this season. We have the best fields that I can ever remember having, and we'll try and find a way to get all the Finals into the stadium.

so, the math, is actually pretty good! :)

1155 Posts

Awesome Jeff and LIT,

I actually totally agree with your last two posts. This little forum topic, has generated some feedback, and that was the hope of it. Excellent suggestions.

Schedule reduction to 15 games + opportunity for tournaments?
no multi-team players allowed?

Please feel free to continue. More , more , more....

25 Posts

so why did the league pay for the refs clinic? because it introduced conscripted refs to match the game demand. Which it doesnt need to do with less games. (boy i love answering my own questions)

if the season is made into a 15 game season it reduces the number of games and money for the league. but it also... (1) reduces # of refs needed (2) # of feilds needed (instead of needing buhler and maple grove you might only need one of those places) (3) less lining of the fields needed (4) a schedule that doesnt have teams playing pointless games against the same team over and over again (two games against a team in the same div is more than enough) ... there are more points but im late for practice already so i gotta go

AA and A member #9

231 Posts

What a bunch of women. After reading these posts I have come to the conclusion that you should all cut your nts off and join the female species. Would someone make a decision and stick with it.And on that note I think I'll fix myself another drink.
Glen

1155 Posts

OK, Ok....I know everyone is wondering what happened between the two main "webbatants."

In honour of Glen a sub-meeting was held at the orbit room Bar, last night to arrange the details of the WTFL Pay - Per View, UCF match between The Professor and the Accountant.

However, if you want to talk about Aunty- Climactic.......pfffffft!

While the MTG issue arose, it was partially determined that the interlocking games are the real problem. It was noted that at the start of the season, there were a couple teams with really no division, plus interlocking has worked before, so the league reluctantly decided to have the interlocking games. Multi-team guys would be forced to play with one team and not the other. (It might happen a couple times,so not a really big deal?)

Unfortunately, both sides, seemed to, amazingly understand the concerns of the other!!! Ideas like "no more multi-team guys ever in the future of the world," vs. "having the multi-team guy "have to" play for the lower div team should there ever be a cross-over game again," (Which no one alive on the executive will ever vote for again, so it now seems!)were bandied about.

By the end of evening, and a new investment in the Crown Royal distillery of Manitoba, both webantants were sitting side by side, arms around each others shoulders, saying how great the other was,and that if they had to start a team, from scratch, they'd take each other's sons......it was a moving moment, in a strange sort of way. (Jon doesn't have any known sons, but hey ....not every agreement is perfect)

The evening ended with both guys inviting the other to play for each other's team in the upcoming Regina tournament, and to combine forces to defeat the evil Assassins.

So, the Orbit room is now closed, as it is converting to a millionaires club, as the Avengers have now invested that much in the place. It is to re-open as "Avenger Nation - a state of being" roadhouse, for the people.

It was also determined to confuse the issue, and provide equal confusion,that the Eagles will bring back the "Freaks" (I know I can't imagine that Eagle squad and Freaks in the same sentence either...but hey,... the power of Crown!)and the Assassins, while they use the entire league as a recruiting farm team, must establish a firm "2nd div." team. Anyone interested?

In that way all four teams in Elite will then have cross over problems, should inter-locking play be re-introduced in the future.

Where's Al and Glen when you need them?

12 Posts

Has the league ever considered handling the divisions like the EPL (English Premier League). Say you have 6 division with say 10 teams each. The top 8 teams make the playoff's. The bottom 2 teams are relegated to the next lower division. While 2 top teams based on end standings move up to the next division, the following season. This may balance out the teams evenly and make the division more competitive. This would make the season have some meaning, and a playoff for Division Champions. Multi-Teams players could exist. They would have to play a division that is three lower than their highest one. So if guy is in Div 3, his/her other team would have to be in Div 6.(Based on first year of this system in the league) Each lower div team can only have one higher div guy on there team. This would prevent them from being forced to choose what team to play for and would prevent a team full of upper divsion players. I say 3 divisions lower in case at the end of the season his higher div team may drop into div 4, while the lower Div team may move up to Div 5.(Again based on the first year this system is in play) I think something like this creates team loyalties, and good rivalries. Scheduling would be easier, scores would be closer, and teams would be playing in division they should be playing in. If a teams runs the shoe in the division it would force them to move up and play in a division that would be more competitive for them, and helps them develop into better players. Thus creating a better league. Just my thought.

Shuan

1155 Posts

Fabulous (how do you spell that?)

Excellent suggestions. Not sure if the league has to "officially" move teams by division. We suggest teams play in spots, but there are always a few who don't listen and get whooped. Hey it's their dollar. But for veteran teams...for sure!! Great point!!

For the most part we encourage new inexperienced players to start at the beginning. A team of ex- Bisons wouldn't start at the begining, but neither the top. When a team does win we strongly suggest they move up. Great points!!

Your second suggestion with the multi-team player is excellent. I already have a form of that rule in the Indoor league. Secondly, teams with the same guys, are NOT schedulled against each other, in most cases. We just talked about that last night, also as a possible solution for next season. Looks like you have some great suggestions!!

Good point about having to play a few divisions down
Keep them coming.

12 Posts

Why not have the league say, you finished here, you must move up or down. But new teams joining the league, can play where they like providing, the division they choose is not full with veteran teams. The system would filter them to where they should be playing. What is to stop the Assassins or Sunparties from playing in div 4, and crushing everyone, other than sportsmenship. Why would The Bandits moving up form div 6, if all they want to do is win, and crush everyone. Not very fun for the less teams that don't have the experince to win, and learn.

Whatever the league chooses. I will be playing here. I am just giving my thoughts.

Shaun

1155 Posts

Sorry Shaun,

You started off with a goofy point. Assassins and Sunparties would never play in any division but the top. Why would you raise such a point? It's like saying if a Nuclear Bomb explodes in Winnipeg will the games be cancelled? There is little chance of either happening.

Teams in the new team Rec division may only play in that division for 3 years. Then they have to move up or move out.

As I stated, upon registration, the 20 man executive "guided" teams as to what division to register in. There are always a few teams that are new and end up overmatched, but for the most part, the expertise of the 20 headed monster called the exec, usually provided good guidance. After all they have been there done that.

For the most part teams that win a division are strongly "encouraged" to move up. But again team reps know their team. Maybe half leave to go to University and then they become weaker, maybe last year's QB has flown the coup. I think it's great we leave it up to the team reps to decide. Stalin and Adolph didn't end up too good with their forced "policies." (This years ref rule was required to get new blood, but was a one shot deal)

45 Posts

Is the "3 year in Rec Division move up or move out" set in stone? Last year was our first season in the Rec. Division and while we finished .500 we were pummeled by most teams above us while we scored narrow victories vs. teams below us. This year we are in a battle for 2nd but haven't come close to blowing out any of the other teams with most of our games decided by 10 points or less. The majority of our team is made up of guys without tons of experience with most of us well over 30. Unless Division 6 is fairly weak (which I doubt) our team would get destroyed in most games if we were forced into a higher division. We would much rather be competitive in the Rec. Division than get our butts handed to us in Division 6. This being said, if the rule is set in stone then so be it.
thanks.

1155 Posts

After 3 years in Rec,you should be ready for some like minded competition. That New team division is there to let guys get familiar with the game, and recruit as needed. It's not set in stone, but it may be in one of the versions of the constitution (to be approved at this years AGM) It's a guideline we have used for the last 5 years of the rec div's existance.

45 Posts

The Badgers will still have one more year in Rec. Division. Come 2010 we'll see how it goes.

thanks

44 Posts

I thought when the new team division was renamed rec division the "3 year" rule was removed. I may be wrong.

After having played in both new team/rec and div 5/6 for a few years now I think it may be most beneficial to just do away with the "rec" rules and make another full division and treat it fairly/charge it the same. From what I recall the new team division was created to try to recruit teams into the league and now we've reached the point there's discussion on limiting teams in the league.

1155 Posts

Well Mark,

Yeah just move up a division. That's the point. Div 6 ain't the Olympics..it's pretty recreational. If after 3 years in the new team/Rec div, and you can't be respectable, maybe you should try a new sport. I mean if you've been there for 4 years and you can't handle teams that don't have a clue to the rules or little athletic ability, what does that tell ya?

And Andy, the Badgers are way better,than a bunch of teenagers who don't even have co-ordinated t-shirts, so there is no comparison there. That's the intent of the New team Div. Provide a place for guys who are new to the game to play, so they can get their feet wet, and not get hosed.

The next higher div is for veteran teams that are "recreation" based.

But, individual cases can be examined.

The Badgers would do quite nicely in Div 6.:)

679 Posts

I think we should try to get 200 teams in the league. Here's how we can do it:

1) remove all rules. You want to play on 20 teams, you can!
2) change the field dimensions to something like 30 yards by 50 yards. Then we can play football anywhere, including some people who have very large backyards (not bums, actual backyards). Or hey, put 2 games on the same field, now we just doubled the profit!
3) remove the refs- Why pay for refs anyway, we all stink, surely the teams can do a better job themselves! Just self-officiate, what could possibly go wrong!

check it out, I just removed all the big costs for the league and now we can really expand! More teams equals more MONEY and now all the magic can really get going. BIGGER IS BETTER, don't let your wives/girlfriends tell ya differently.

Got any other tips to help expand the league? We can get this sucka up to 200 if we really try!

231 Posts

Mark: Just when I thought you were untrainable with no sense of humour you come up with this. I guess my influence got to you. Well done.
Glen

679 Posts

Glen, it was either you or a fine lad named Jonnie Walker.

43 Posts

Jonnie Walker - professional fishing guide since 1974 in Sarasota Bay area, proficient in all types of fishing from light tackle-back bay and fly-fishing to tarpon and offshore fishing. Host of WWSB-Ch7's "Gone Fishing with Capt. Jonnie Walker"

Johnnie Walker - brand of Scotch whisky produced in Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland. It is the most widely distributed brand of Scotch whisky in the world, sold in almost every country and with yearly sales of over 120 million bottles. Originally known as Walker's Kilmarnock Whisky, the brand is a legacy left by John ‘Johnnie’ Walker after he started to sell whisky in his grocer’s shop in Ayrshire, Scotland.

70 Posts

so...who was it?
jonnie or johnnie?

70 Posts

or glennie?

679 Posts

It was actually Javon Walker. He's a funny guy. He's also supposed to let me know where all the great spots in Vegas are.